Extremist who set himself aflame before the NYC Trial Court of Trump had posted a Substack Post to announce his self-destructive intent! We must have peer-review against the extreme right!
The whole approach by these open forum platforms, including Reddit and Twitter, to allow users to "self regulate" seems intended to not pierce the veil of Section 230 that "embodies that principle that we should all be responsible for our own actions and statements online, but generally not those of others. The law prevents most civil suits against users or services that are based on what others say."
That means Section 230 preserves these sites as "open forums" or "open marketplaces" where the owners of the marketplace are not responsible for actions of its customers i.e. users.
Trying to regulate customers or users puts the protections provided by Section 230 at risk.
That said, just like any open marketplace or open forum, where anyone is allowed their "soapbox," if someone is a threat to themselves and/or others, the marketplace should have an obligation to report the danger to authorities.
The fact that Substack's algorithms failed to pick up on this post and the threat of self immolation by the user seems irresponsible. But it's no illegal.
Just like abolishing the "Fairness doctrine" by the FCC, it's a slippery slope that can be a double edged sword.
Lorraine: Your thoughts are so good to hear. By now, you know how I love your gifts, spirituality, your writing, your thoughts.
I totally agree about Section 230.
I am still going to try to find a way to flag the article.
There are no "Flag" buttons that I can find.
I am trying to find a Substack "Administrator" I can write to.
As usual, your thoughts touch me as being well-considered and judicious.
Thank you so much!
Oh, and as you and I both know, Reagan was the one who abolished the "Fairness Doctrine." Now, instead of Walter Cronkite on CBS, David Brinkley and Chet Huntley on NBC, we have . . . Laura Ingrown and Shorn Vanity of Fox. Oh, vey!
Armand, since I'm still relatively new on Substack, I'm aggressive about reporting and blocking trolls, and there have been a few. I'm not sure if that flags them to Substack but I do it anyway.
If the algorithm is anything like Twitter, it does keep my feed fairly clean.
And yes, Reagan technically ended the Fairness Doctrine, but it was the onset of cable tv that really ended it. Cable channels aren't covered by Broadcast license restrictions because it's pay TV. Broadcast TV is still free to viewers so I believe it is a little more regulated.
My attempt to flag the article have ultimately "succeeded", in that a very abridged narrative went through.
But the software rejected any lengthy explanation that was necessary to explain the toxicity of the post, where the USA Today had flagged Substack for the terrorist's posting!
One would think that the Substack administrators would be heedful enough of the platform's reputation to enable easier process to flag and delete posts related to a violent, extremist action, posted on Substack, that occurred and is familiar to all within the USA:
Frustrating.
But good people like you brighten my every day. I mean this sincerely. Both to you, Susan Niemann, Diane K24 and a number of other good, truly good persons on this platform.
Yes I agree, all these platforms like Twitter and Reddit are so impersonal.
Substack already gave a very disappointing and controversial response to the requests for better policing of right wing radicals, so they clearly have their own priorities.
But as you say, we have our respectful community of resisters. 💪🏻💙
Lorraine Evanoff: Exactly, "Our respectful community of resisters" are persons I had learned of a few months ago with regards to the August 2023 "Atlantic" article about right-wing extremism tolerated by the platform.
When I think of all of the wonderful, deeply good persons the platform hosts -- and you are at the top of those -- it gives me passion to join the resisters in the fight.
I am not done. I am for tonight! LOL! But I will seek out and join the resisters I find.
Thank you for your wisdom in this matter. I treasure our contacts!
Diane K24: Your own postings with art, photographs, narratives about respect toward others, your thoughts on JRR Tolkien, your political postings -- I treasure these. On the website of the self-immolation posting it shows that there were 54 repostings! Thank you for your thoughts on this.
Kiwiwriter47: I will try to find who got some neo-Nazis off of our platform (Substack) and notify them.
I actually followed the Substack path to submitting complaints, twice. Diane K24 also filed a complaint.
The problem is, the Platform's complaint process seems to be a receiving station into a vacuum or black hole, where the protest disappears, and it is hard to find a path to raise one's voice.
Keep posted. As Joyce Vance says, "We are in this together."
By the way, if you read any of my stuff, you know I am a BIG fan of your stories about your growth in writing and our mutual aversion to mathematics. I am especially a fan of, and often recommend others to, your multi-part series on the Holocaust.
I am appalled, absolutely appalled that you have received personal threats and hate mail. I am very, very sorry for your experience.
My hope is in contacting the initial complainants from circa August 2023, when I work out who the group was. I bet if they read the links, we will at least see an action group.
You should note that when I get angry notes from readers (I'm getting them mostly about the idea that the Bloated Yam lose his Secret Service protection when in the can), I just ridicule them and challenge them to explain their idiotic views.
I just told the woman "Pamela Brown" who said I suffer from "Trump Derangement Syndrome" that she can address that by
1. Voting Democratic
2. Ordering vibrators off the internet. I gave her links to sources for them.
I do variations on that theme with these folks. I'm sure you've seen my 19 or so questions for Trumpetoons.
They never answer them.
Heck, they can only count up to eight on their toes.
Armando, you are 100% correct to be alarmed.
The whole approach by these open forum platforms, including Reddit and Twitter, to allow users to "self regulate" seems intended to not pierce the veil of Section 230 that "embodies that principle that we should all be responsible for our own actions and statements online, but generally not those of others. The law prevents most civil suits against users or services that are based on what others say."
That means Section 230 preserves these sites as "open forums" or "open marketplaces" where the owners of the marketplace are not responsible for actions of its customers i.e. users.
Trying to regulate customers or users puts the protections provided by Section 230 at risk.
That said, just like any open marketplace or open forum, where anyone is allowed their "soapbox," if someone is a threat to themselves and/or others, the marketplace should have an obligation to report the danger to authorities.
The fact that Substack's algorithms failed to pick up on this post and the threat of self immolation by the user seems irresponsible. But it's no illegal.
Just like abolishing the "Fairness doctrine" by the FCC, it's a slippery slope that can be a double edged sword.
Lorraine: Your thoughts are so good to hear. By now, you know how I love your gifts, spirituality, your writing, your thoughts.
I totally agree about Section 230.
I am still going to try to find a way to flag the article.
There are no "Flag" buttons that I can find.
I am trying to find a Substack "Administrator" I can write to.
As usual, your thoughts touch me as being well-considered and judicious.
Thank you so much!
Oh, and as you and I both know, Reagan was the one who abolished the "Fairness Doctrine." Now, instead of Walter Cronkite on CBS, David Brinkley and Chet Huntley on NBC, we have . . . Laura Ingrown and Shorn Vanity of Fox. Oh, vey!
Armand, since I'm still relatively new on Substack, I'm aggressive about reporting and blocking trolls, and there have been a few. I'm not sure if that flags them to Substack but I do it anyway.
If the algorithm is anything like Twitter, it does keep my feed fairly clean.
And yes, Reagan technically ended the Fairness Doctrine, but it was the onset of cable tv that really ended it. Cable channels aren't covered by Broadcast license restrictions because it's pay TV. Broadcast TV is still free to viewers so I believe it is a little more regulated.
Anyway, great subject, important stuff!
Lorraine Evanoff: Got it.
My feed, so far, is clean.
My attempt to flag the article have ultimately "succeeded", in that a very abridged narrative went through.
But the software rejected any lengthy explanation that was necessary to explain the toxicity of the post, where the USA Today had flagged Substack for the terrorist's posting!
One would think that the Substack administrators would be heedful enough of the platform's reputation to enable easier process to flag and delete posts related to a violent, extremist action, posted on Substack, that occurred and is familiar to all within the USA:
Frustrating.
But good people like you brighten my every day. I mean this sincerely. Both to you, Susan Niemann, Diane K24 and a number of other good, truly good persons on this platform.
Yes I agree, all these platforms like Twitter and Reddit are so impersonal.
Substack already gave a very disappointing and controversial response to the requests for better policing of right wing radicals, so they clearly have their own priorities.
But as you say, we have our respectful community of resisters. 💪🏻💙
Lorraine Evanoff: Exactly, "Our respectful community of resisters" are persons I had learned of a few months ago with regards to the August 2023 "Atlantic" article about right-wing extremism tolerated by the platform.
When I think of all of the wonderful, deeply good persons the platform hosts -- and you are at the top of those -- it gives me passion to join the resisters in the fight.
I am not done. I am for tonight! LOL! But I will seek out and join the resisters I find.
Thank you for your wisdom in this matter. I treasure our contacts!
I'm so happy I found Substack and you!
Lorraine, yes, yes, yes!
Your agreement means a lot DK24!
Thanks! And yours too, Lorraine!
Diane K24 and Lorraine Evanoff: I second the sentiment heartily for both of you!
🥰
Thanks—I wasn’t aware of the issue, but I agree Substack needs some self-regulation on several fronts.
Diane K24: Your own postings with art, photographs, narratives about respect toward others, your thoughts on JRR Tolkien, your political postings -- I treasure these. On the website of the self-immolation posting it shows that there were 54 repostings! Thank you for your thoughts on this.
Armand, I trust your judgment on so many issues. Thanks💙
I find learning of this extremely upsetting.
Not finding my name in this post, but learning that someone announced his suicide on Substack.
Nobody took action.
That is unacceptable.
This guy was NOT trying to be a martyr for his whacko conspiracy theory -- nobody cares about that.
He was extremely depressed and in a state of despair and was trying to find a way out of his life of misery and pain.
He got it. And his family and friends are left to suffer.
Kiwiwriter47: I will try to find who got some neo-Nazis off of our platform (Substack) and notify them.
I actually followed the Substack path to submitting complaints, twice. Diane K24 also filed a complaint.
The problem is, the Platform's complaint process seems to be a receiving station into a vacuum or black hole, where the protest disappears, and it is hard to find a path to raise one's voice.
Keep posted. As Joyce Vance says, "We are in this together."
Yes, I have complained about some of the personal threats and hate mail I have received, and had no answer.
I am appalled that they took no action over an open suicide threat.
Kiwiwriter47: I am not giving up.
By the way, if you read any of my stuff, you know I am a BIG fan of your stories about your growth in writing and our mutual aversion to mathematics. I am especially a fan of, and often recommend others to, your multi-part series on the Holocaust.
I am appalled, absolutely appalled that you have received personal threats and hate mail. I am very, very sorry for your experience.
My hope is in contacting the initial complainants from circa August 2023, when I work out who the group was. I bet if they read the links, we will at least see an action group.
I am with YOU, Kiwiwriter47, 100%.
Thanks for the warm words.
You should note that when I get angry notes from readers (I'm getting them mostly about the idea that the Bloated Yam lose his Secret Service protection when in the can), I just ridicule them and challenge them to explain their idiotic views.
I just told the woman "Pamela Brown" who said I suffer from "Trump Derangement Syndrome" that she can address that by
1. Voting Democratic
2. Ordering vibrators off the internet. I gave her links to sources for them.
I do variations on that theme with these folks. I'm sure you've seen my 19 or so questions for Trumpetoons.
They never answer them.
Heck, they can only count up to eight on their toes.
Nicely done, Armand!